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Counter counter point - is there much of anything official done in Italy which is not perverted by criminals/mafia? Seriously, not trying to be a dick.


eh, thought about it a lot, and the fact is, it's not the mafia. the whole society is like that. it's a cultural thing, where people expect other people to owe favors back as a natural way of doing business. it works at every level here, from groceries stores keeping freshest bread for friends and giving mellow salami to foreigners upward.

it's easy to identify the issue with the big names, but it starts way, way below that.


Portuguese here. Same crap, everyday, everywhere. :)


You must live in a different Portugal than the one I know. While I admit perceptions of corruption are quite high among Portuguese, actual corruption is not that high, at least according to the international metrics I've seen. We're certainly not a mafia state or anything close to that.


> You must live in a different Portugal than the one I know.

Everybody does, right? It's my perception, as you have yours.

From where I stand, laws are ignored as if they didn't exist, people care only about themselves and the quid pro quo is the currency to achieve anything in a timely manner. The rot is everywhere, from the guy which slows down traffic because he parked in the middle of the road to get broad, to municipal services and e.g. construction licenses.




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